Difference between revisions of "Which Was the First Club?"
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Which was the First [[Club]]? This turns out to be a harder question even than [[Which Was the First SF Convention?]]! | Which was the First [[Club]]? This turns out to be a harder question even than [[Which Was the First SF Convention?]]! | ||
| − | First, it depends on what you mean by "club", since the earliest things which are usually called SF clubs were ''science'' clubs whose members also liked SF. Do they count? If the bulk of the club's activity was sf-related, they would seem to be legitimate contenders for the title, but from when? It seems likely that when they were founded, they were founded as ''science'' clubs and over time sf took up a larger fraction of their attention. If so, do you count them as sf clubs from their foundation (clearly wrong) or from the point where sf became a majority interest (unknowable)? It's also worth remembering that in | + | First, it depends on what you mean by "club", since the earliest things which are usually called SF clubs were ''science'' clubs whose members also liked SF. Do they count? If the bulk of the club's activity was sf-related, they would seem to be legitimate contenders for the title, but from when? It seems likely that when they were founded, they were founded as ''science'' clubs and over time sf took up a larger fraction of their attention. If so, do you count them as sf clubs from their foundation (clearly wrong) or from the point where sf became a majority interest (unknowable)? It's also worth remembering that in those [[Gernsbackian]] days, even a club which considered itself to be an sf club, would still discuss science a lot. |
| − | Secondly, the evidence is very unreliable since everyone involved is now dead and [[fanzines]] | + | Secondly, the evidence is very unreliable since everyone involved is now dead and [[fanzines]] had not yet been invented, so there's little or no contemporary documentation available. |
Probably the main controversy is the [[Scienceers]] vs. the [[Eastbay Club]]. | Probably the main controversy is the [[Scienceers]] vs. the [[Eastbay Club]]. | ||
| − | The claim of the Eastbay Club is based on | + | The claim of the Eastbay Club is based on [[Aubrey MacDermott on the Origins of Fandom|claims by its founder, Aubrey MacDermott]]. He holds, essentially, that his club was ignored by the [[New York]]-centric [[Fan History]] Establishment. This is not implausible, but it remains true that the evidence is entirely the testimony of an interested party. Additionally, [[Aubrey MacDermott|MacDermott]] is accused by some of "remembering" new facts when needed to retain his claim to primacy. (See letter from [[Fred Patten]] in {{file770 | issue=15 | page=23}}.) |
Between the vagueness of the question and the unreliability of the data, it seems unlikely we'll be able to resolve this, though the Scienceers seem to have the strongest claim. | Between the vagueness of the question and the unreliability of the data, it seems unlikely we'll be able to resolve this, though the Scienceers seem to have the strongest claim. | ||
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Club || Date || Notes | Club || Date || Notes | ||
[[ISA|SCC/ISA]] || early Spring, 1928 ||Discounted by most [[fanhistorians]] as being mostly a science club. | [[ISA|SCC/ISA]] || early Spring, 1928 ||Discounted by most [[fanhistorians]] as being mostly a science club. | ||
| − | [[Eastbay Club]] || April 1928 ||Unfortunately, the supporting evidence is not very strong. | + | [[Eastbay Club]] || April 1928 || Unfortunately, the supporting evidence is not very strong. |
| − | [[Scienceers]] || December 11, 1929 ||The Scienceers has long been held to be the first club. | + | [[Scienceers]] || December 11, 1929 || The Scienceers has long been held to be the first club. |
| − | [[Boys' Scientifiction Club]] || 1930 ||Supposedly formed by [[Ackerman]] because he couldn't travel to the [[Eastbay Club]], but, if so, it doesn't seem to have been very large or very active. Since his co-founder was in [[Missouri]], it may have been strictly [[correspondence]]. Also, the name may have been Boys' Science Club. | + | [[Boys' Scientifiction Club]] || 1930 || Supposedly formed by [[Ackerman]] because he couldn't travel to the [[Eastbay Club]], but, if so, it doesn't seem to have been very large or very active. Since his co-founder was in [[Missouri]], it may have been strictly [[correspondence]]. Also, the name may have been Boys' Science Club. |
| − | [[Ilford Science Literary Circle]] || October 27, 1930 ||The first [[club]] in the [[UK]] | + | [[Ilford Science Literary Circle]] || October 27, 1930 || The first [[club]] in the [[UK]] |
</tab> | </tab> | ||
Revision as of 11:45, 8 April 2023
Which was the First Club? This turns out to be a harder question even than Which Was the First SF Convention?!
First, it depends on what you mean by "club", since the earliest things which are usually called SF clubs were science clubs whose members also liked SF. Do they count? If the bulk of the club's activity was sf-related, they would seem to be legitimate contenders for the title, but from when? It seems likely that when they were founded, they were founded as science clubs and over time sf took up a larger fraction of their attention. If so, do you count them as sf clubs from their foundation (clearly wrong) or from the point where sf became a majority interest (unknowable)? It's also worth remembering that in those Gernsbackian days, even a club which considered itself to be an sf club, would still discuss science a lot.
Secondly, the evidence is very unreliable since everyone involved is now dead and fanzines had not yet been invented, so there's little or no contemporary documentation available.
Probably the main controversy is the Scienceers vs. the Eastbay Club.
The claim of the Eastbay Club is based on claims by its founder, Aubrey MacDermott. He holds, essentially, that his club was ignored by the New York-centric Fan History Establishment. This is not implausible, but it remains true that the evidence is entirely the testimony of an interested party. Additionally, MacDermott is accused by some of "remembering" new facts when needed to retain his claim to primacy. (See letter from Fred Patten in File 770 15, p. 23.)
Between the vagueness of the question and the unreliability of the data, it seems unlikely we'll be able to resolve this, though the Scienceers seem to have the strongest claim.
Very Early Clubs:[edit]
| Club | Date | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| SCC/ISA | early Spring, 1928 | Discounted by most fanhistorians as being mostly a science club. |
| Eastbay Club | April 1928 | Unfortunately, the supporting evidence is not very strong. |
| Scienceers | December 11, 1929 | The Scienceers has long been held to be the first club. |
| Boys' Scientifiction Club | 1930 | Supposedly formed by Ackerman because he couldn't travel to the Eastbay Club, but, if so, it doesn't seem to have been very large or very active. Since his co-founder was in Missouri, it may have been strictly correspondence. Also, the name may have been Boys' Science Club. |
| Ilford Science Literary Circle | October 27, 1930 | The first club in the UK |
There may also have been very early clubs in Chicago, Boston and Georgia.
- More discussion in File 770.
- “The Tale of Aubrey McDermott”: Video by First Fandom Experience on their research into McDermott’s claims.
See also:[edit]
| Fanhistory | 1928—1930 |
| This is a fanhistory page. Please add more detail. |
